Stonewall CEO Nancy Kelley finally agrees to a debate. Maya Forstater:
“No debate” has been the longstanding position of Stonewall since it took up the cause of overwriting sex with by self-identified gender. It has refused all invitations to take part in discussion with those who disagree with its “trans women are women” position.
So when on Tuesday night Stonewall CEO Nancy Kelley spoke alongside Naomi Cunningham, Chair of Sex Matters, and answered questions from members of the LGB Alliance, history was made.
The debate was about Stonewall’s new campaign, against “conversion therapy”. Stonewall argue that there is an urgent need for a new criminal offence, despite there being no evidence that old and barbaric practices of gay conversion are making a come-back in the UK.
Why the urgency? Barrister Naomi Cunningham pointed out Stonewall (and the government) has included in the definition of conversion therapy not only efforts to change a person’s sexual orientation but also efforts to change whether a person is trans. These things are quite different:
Being gay or bisexual isn’t a medical condition. It doesn’t require treatment. We can all agree that practices that try to change people’s sexual orientation are wrong and futile.
Gender dysphoria sufficiently severe to make you seek radical alterations to your healthy body undoubtedly is a medical condition. There are two clues. The word: dysphoria – profound unease or dissatisfaction. And the demand for medical treatment.
The proposed law would make it a criminal offence for a therapist or other professional to try to encourage a child who has declared themself trans to feel comfortable about their sex instead of putting them on puberty-blocking drugs.
Which would be a disaster. Children need sensible advice, not a rush to validate their social-media-driven whims with irreversible medical intervention.
One question came from Kate Harris, previously a Stonewall Ambassador and now co-founder of the breakaway LGB Alliance. She highlighted that the proposed law would for the first time put the concept of gender identity into legislation and asked “how can you base good law on a feeling rather than a fact?” … “We don’t have to use the word gender identity” said Nancy Kelley “we could use person language like trans and non-binary people”.
Allison Bailey, a barrister suing Stonewall for victimisation also asked a question “How are you going to stop lesbians being harassed to accept transgender males into their dating pool when you are comparing lesbians to racists and anti Semites? It is coercion”
Nancy Kelley looked uncomfortable and replied “We are talking about two separate things: lesbian sexuality and who people date…I don’t think it is relevant to how we provide protection to young adults.”
Hmm.
Kellley was also on Woman's Hour yesterday, where she was interviewed by Emma Barnett and confirmed her poor debating skills.
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