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March 30, 2008



"it's hard to deny that Wilders did set out to offend"

As David Thompson points out in his update to his post on this issue, it is not possible to discuss the issue of Islamic Fundamentalism (Islamism, Islamofascism, whatever) without going to the root of the problem - Mohammad and his Koran. It is therefore not possible to discuss it ***without*** giving offence. I am a little surprised at you, Mick, for not realising the problem that anyone who wishes to challenge the tenets of Islam, such as Wilders, Hirsi Ali, and others, has: viz. it cannot be done without giving offence. The charge that you lay at Wilders is therefore facile and irrelevant.

I do not see a man who *intends* to offend, I see a man driven by frustration at the lack of any serious debate, and who wants the fundamentals on the table where we can apply reason to them. The "offence" that Muslims take at any attempt to open a robust debate must be seen for what it is - a shallow ploy to shut it down.

Mick H

I'm sorry but I'm not prepared to view Wilders as some kind of free speech martyr struggling to get his message across - very much unlike Hirsi Ali, who's managed to "challenge the tenets of Islam" with dignity. Wilders knows exactly what he's doing.

Yes of course, the offence which so many Muslims take at any criticism is very much the problem, and that's what Wilders is playing with.

Rather than a man "driven by frustration at the lack of any serious debate" I see a demagogue willing to stir up trouble for his own political ends. The fact that I think in many ways he's right in what he says doesn't change my view of him.


You may be right, who knows what is in a man's soul? He *has* put his life on the line for this - that says something about his sincerity, doesn't it? Time will tell anyway, so I will reserve judgement.

If social cohesion is that fragile that one short film can shatter it, we are in deeper trouble than I thought. If it is not, then there is no need for a fuss.



This is simply one ideology doing it's damnedest to impose itself on everything everywhere. One in a long line of many.
You can submit or you can resist; there'll be no fence sitting while this plays out.
You see the violence as quirks, MH, I see the moderates as odd men out.

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