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May 12, 2009

Comments

William

I think you missed the point here. It isn't about Wikipedia, which as you say is based on trust. It's about the news media, which ought not to be. And which ought not to be using a single source without fact-checking.

Gordon

The point of this post is the heading "What Sociology Students Do". Yes, a silly student performing an ethically unsound prank, big deal. Do you really, truly believe that this has damaged Wikipedias reputation? The only damage (a miniscule dent) done is to mainstream journalism, the sloppiness of which needs as much exposing as possible. Surely every half wit knows that you should always check citations before you use them - this applies to academic books as much as to wikipedia. It is incredible that the journalists were that sloppy. It is also a testament to just how much more reliable wikipedia is compared to mainstream media (& some academic books).
But as I say your eye was on the headline - rather in the manner of a print journalist - in which one example is used to make a huge sweeping generalisation that revives a very very old right-wing journalistic stereotype. The only valid point you make is lifted from Jay Walsh's intelligent response in the original piece in the San Francisco Chronicle. You had nothing to add but the dumb headline.

dearieme

"Why should pretensions to academic research absolve one from the normal requirements of morality?" Some academics deem themselves to be above petty, bourgeois morality.

Mick H

"It's incredible that the journalists were that sloppy"? You have an extremely idealised view of journalists then.

Mick H

Just to elaborate on that previous comment....

I don't really believe this supposed horror at what the journalists did. It's faux outrage.

I don't normally defend journalists, but I will here. Basically, with sources, you trust your judgement, balancing your time against the requirements of fact-checking. So, you're writing an obituary for Maurice Jarre. You look at Wiki. It says that he supported Le Pen and the Front National. Or that he was charged with possessing child pornography. Wow. Clearly you double check. These are important issues you don't want to get wrong - and also, knowing Wiki, you know that someone could've been tampering with the facts. Someone who didn't like Jarre.

But here it's a quote; a harmless little quote, quite in keeping with what Jarre might have said. It's entirely trivial. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight you can say, yes, it should've been double-checked, but really, at the time, you think, why? What possible reason could there be for fabricating something like that? What you fail to realise, of course - what never occurs to you - is that a silly student has played a prank in the name of sociological research, and will get his picture in the paper for his trouble. And that a lot of self-important people will then pontificate about the incredible sloppiness of journalists nowadays, oh dear oh dear.

It's a non-story - a storm in a teacup.

Gordon

Dearieme. Not sure about these academics to whom you refer but I would certainly regard myself above "petty, bourgeois morality". Why, do you think morality should be petty? Also this joker isn't an academic he's a student and this prank would not be regarded by anybody (except, maybe some journalists) as genuine research. But I'm missing the point here - this post & your response is all about the current trend among semi-educated bloggers for liberal-bashing in which big soft targets are chosen for your rapier-like intellects.
Yes, Mick it's a non-story but then why the post?

Mick H

"This post & your response is all about the current trend among semi-educated bloggers for liberal-bashing in which big soft targets are chosen for your rapier-like intellects."

Oh dear. Not sure who this is aimed at: I'm not dearieme.

Why the post? Because people - like yourself - are seeing this as an exposure of the sloppiness of journalism. As I've said, I don't think it is.

dearieme

Can't be aimed at me, Mick - I'm not "semi-educated".

Paul Moloney

"He had to put the quote in three times!"

As anyone who an ex-Wikipedia contributer like myself knows, the zealots who get into edit wars have no problem inserting tripe into a Wikipedia article three times before breakfast.

P.

Dom

I'm surprised this stunt is getting so much attention. There are many quotes floating around that are bogus, but no one seems to care. Oliver Kamm has a little cottage industry fact-checking other people's quotations, and today alone he has two examples, both from Neil Clark. Kamm is kept pretty busy just checking on Chomsky alone, once finding that Chomsky has misquoted himself.

There is a lot to complain about when it comes to journalism, but I agree that quoting something that has been planted doesn't seem like a biggie.

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